[ThawingOut]

I feel so much spiritual angst about death, about why life is worth living!


http://www.thawingout.org/index.php/2017...-on-death/

See below for an excerpt:


"I remember my client’s wife-turned-widow, sitting by her husband’s body. I see her force his eyelids open to ask him, “Can you see me?” I listen as she tells me how cold his body is becoming, and I watch as she presses his whitened finger nails. I smell his body, which does not smell pleasant after all it’s been through over the past 12 hours. Then I look at my boyfriend, who is very much alive and well. His eyes see me, his hands are warm, and his fingernails bright pink. All I smell is the body wash he uses to shower. And I wonder if someday I will squeeze my husband’s hand – and won’t get a squeeze back...."

[EnlightenedMK]

Wow! Such a emotional experience, both for you and the family. I love your ability to put those feelings into words.

It's events like these that make me wonder if I'm completely dead inside. Because as I sit here reading this I try to imagine what I would feel when one of my parents, or in-laws, or even my husband dies and I feel nothing. No sorrow or dread, nothing. Actually that's not true, when I think about my husband I get irritated, and think of all the things I'm going to have to add to my schedule. Am I really heartless or is it such a traumatic thought that my mind is running away from it?

I don't know. I hear friends talk about how heart broken they are after their parents pass. And I think "I wish I could feel that way but I'm pretty sure I won't" and then I feel awful that I can't feel anything... sorry I'm rambling.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[leo the lamb]

Enlightened, I think I'm in a similar boat. I really can't relate to that kind of sorrow. I suspect that such an event would hit me much harder when it actually happens, though, as opposed to how I imagine it now.

[myotch]

My dad died when I was young. I always thought if my mom died, I'd feel like an orphan.

She died two years ago. I feel regret at a failed and rocky relationship. I'm glad she no longer struggles to walk or take care of herself. I feel a lack of resolution in some relationship matters. I miss her sometimes. I'm in awe and thankful for the beauty we found in her death (Whole 'nother story).

I was reading about the guy, dying of Leukemia. Resigned to death, he wrote his own obit, and threw a party with an open invitation at his country club, where he previously took a stranger to lunch once a week. He described the way he was dying and his pending death "just a peanut" in a life he found worth living to the fullest.

This guy has it right. In the end, we all die alone no matter who is in the room. It's not the little peanut of dying. It's not going quietly into that darkness.

[First Time Caller]

Excellent post, TO.

A few things struck me as I read your words.  The family you were working with, their words were quite profound, and your noting them made me think about why death is so difficult.

Quote: “I would hold his hand and tell him we loved him and ask him to squeeze my hand back if he loved us, too,” she explained. This ritual happened numerous times, as she reported. “Then we left the room for a couple minutes. I came back and squeezed his hand and talked to him, and this time, he didn’t squeeze back.” That was it! He was there. And he was gone. That’s how death works.

When we lose someone we love, we want them to die knowing that we love them.  BUT - when they die, we are losing someone who loves us.  This daughter, as she watched her father die, knew those final moments with him were the last that she would be assured of his love for her.  She was yearning to feel that squeeze, to know that his love for her was still present. When those who love us die, their love dies too.  

Quote:I see her force his eyelids open to ask him, “Can you see me?”

How many people in our lives actually see us?  We are with people every day, but how often do we actually see each other?  Beyond the "how are you's" and "I'm fines."  Not many people ever truly SEE us, and sometimes we don't allow others to see us.  We become invisible to each other, even as we relate.  Yes, we need others in our lives, but often only as an accessory.  When this woman lost her husband, she lost one of few people in her life who might actually see her.  That's an incredible loss.

[pastor's wife]

Quote: When they die, we are losing someone who loves us. This daughter, as she watched her father die, knew those final moments with him were the last that she would be assured of his love for her. She was yearning to feel that squeeze, to know that his love for her was still present. When those who love us die, their love dies too.

Losing someone who loves you leaves a hole in your life.

(I can't help but apply this to divorce though too: to have someone in your life that loved you, that listened to you, that shared your life, that CARED when you were sad or lonely or scared, and then to have that person gone, to have that concern and interest gone, is a wound that I wonder if there is any recovering from.)

[First Time Caller]

(03-21-2017, 08:56 PM)pastor Wrote:

Quote: When they die, we are losing someone who loves us.  This daughter, as she watched her father die, knew those final moments with him were the last that she would be assured of his love for her.  She was yearning to feel that squeeze, to know that his love for her was still present. When those who love us die, their love dies too.  

 

Losing someone who loves you leaves a hole in your life.  

(I can't help but apply this to divorce though too:  to have someone in your life that loved you, that listened to you, that shared your life, that CARED when you were sad or lonely or scared, and then to have that person gone, to have that concern and interest gone, is a wound that I wonder if there is any recovering from.)

I suppose that's true, PW.  Perhaps it's especially difficult knowing that that person chose to leave that void in your life, rather than dying.  I'm sad for you, and hope that my words didn't make things worse by rubbing an already raw spot.

[ThawingOut]

Wow! I'm honored each of you took the time to write back and to throw out your own thoughts on death, loss. One of the downfalls of writing about semi-traumatic experiences is that I'm not always able to keep up on responding to feedback in a timely manner. So thanks for your patience!

EnlightenedMK, I do not think you are heartless or "completely dead inside." Why? Because you are writing and sharing about where you find yourself. You are asking the hard questions instead of hiding from them. That tells me you have heart and you have courage! And actually, I can relate to you in a way. Sometimes I discover I don't care near enough (in my opinion) about things that horrify others, especially people who have not experienced trauma per se. It's sobering. I think it's what hardship does to us sometimes, but I don't think this is the end of the story - for me or you!

Leo the lamb, I agree with your thought: I think that when the hard things actually happen to us, they will probably affect us in ways that are hard to predict beforehand. I think sometimes I kind of pretend to myself that X or Y wouldn't be a big deal, but when it really comes down to it, X and Y does indeed affect me painfully when they happen. Denial, perhaps is at play here? Self-protection? As well as some health - the health of not living in constant anxiety and dread of what could or may happen in the future?

Myotch, thank you for sharing with us a glimpse of your very personal encounters with death! My heart goes out to you - whatever your experiences of losing your parents has been like in the nitty-gritty. Your comment about finding beauty in your mother's death experience and that being a "whole 'nother story" has my interest peaked. Would you be interested in writing about your experience - if not now, someday? Or perhaps you already have? If yes, I would be honored to read it.

FTC, you have a way with words! Thank you for your reflections back. I'm sobered by what you said about how often even those who are fully alive don't actually SEE us, in the truest sense. So true! And I suppose that's equally if not more painful sometimes than having someone pass and no longer be capable of seeing us, in a very practical way. Because we expect those close to us to see us when they are alive, sound in body and mind! Inability to satisfy such a basic need...yeah, that hurts.

Pastor's wife, wow. You make such a difficult but needed point regarding divorce! I've heard that loss of (very) important relationship through some way other than physical death causes grief of "ambiguous loss." Ambiguous because it's often complicated by wondering if you might ever see the person again, have a relationship with them again, wishing for things to have gone different because if they had, perhaps you would still be in relationship with that person, etc., etc. Painful indeed! Does any of this resonate with your experience? Sending you a virtual hug! And holding hope for you and your healing and recovery from this horrible loss.

[First Time Caller]

(03-21-2017, 07:30 PM)EnlightenedMK Wrote: Wow! Such a emotional experience, both for you and the family. I love your ability to put those feelings into words.

It's events like these that make me wonder if I'm completely dead inside. Because as I sit here reading this I try to imagine what I would feel when one of my parents, or in-laws, or even my husband dies and I feel nothing. No sorrow or dread, nothing. Actually that's not true, when I think about my husband I get irritated, and think of all the things I'm going to have to add to my schedule.  Am I really heartless or is it such a traumatic thought that my mind is running away from it?

I don't know. I hear friends talk about how heart broken they are after their parents pass. And I think "I wish I could feel that way but I'm pretty sure I won't" and then I feel awful that I can't feel anything... sorry I'm rambling.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

You aren't dead inside.  Feelings, including the lack of them, are what they are.  They aren't right or wrong.

 None of us really knows how we'll feel in a given situation until it happens.  Usually we are so busy dealing with our day to day life, and that's as much as we can handle.  You process the thought of such a loss at this moment in time, knowing some of how that would affect your life.... it WOULD make it harder to manage your life without a partner.  It doesn't mean you are horrible, and it doesn't mean you don't love him.  It just means that you are probably already stretched thin.  

Try not to feel guilty.  You are perfectly normal.

[leo the lamb]

I guess I always assumed that I was too young to really appreciate the significance of my dad's death. He was bedridden in an air-conditioned room for several months, only occasionally saying something to one of us if the door was open. I think near the end he called each of us, or at least the older kids, to his room, but the memories are hazy. When the day came and my brothers told me, I literally said "Who cares?". I think there was some kind of denial/self-protection element to it. Growing up without a father figure for another six years no doubt stunted my development.

I do feel like I view death in the abstract. Feelings of sorrow have tended to be in empathy, like when I told my sister that her cat had been run over (one of the most emotional moments for me). I kind of look forward to the full emotional experience, not that I want anyone to die but I need to feel the whole range of human emotion. I think it's good to look at death more objectively than we in the first world tend to, allowing the release of any natural feelings, including devastation, but not defining our lives by them. Death is the end of one life, but only a part of life for the living. I couldn't fault anyone for grieving as long as they need to, though.