[WalrusWrangler]

If my parents found out that I drink, it would build a wall between us that I don't know could be easily broken down. Understandably so, to some degree. Both of my parents had parents who abused alcohol in a bad way. My dad used to drink and do all kinds of drugs, too. They're very well acquainted with the dangers of alcohol abuse, and they haven't seen alcohol outside those contexts. I don't intend to ever let them know that I drink. If they ever find out, I will have a bad day.

My SBC church is cool with drinking. I first started consuming alcohol while hanging out with my friends from there. I know a few people who abstain, but it isn't a teaching of the church. It's never been a point of contention. I still use some discretion about when I order alcohol at a restaurant, though. I'm never the first to order it.

I've never been drunk, and I hope to never reach that point. I did get a little swimmy headed after a few martinis, though. I had never had martinis before, and I didn't know how strong they could be until then. I'm slowly learning my limits.

[leo the lamb]

I can't fault people for avoiding or banning something they've only ever seen in a bad light, especially when the impression has been reinforced by personal or near-personal experience. Unfortunately, they refuse to recognize when it is clearly not done to detrimental effect. With alcohol, the perception can be tricky when even such things as laughter and good feelings are to be mostly avoided for holiness' sake. It's that damn slippery slope, or cliff's edge mindset that will continue to trip them up until... how do people come out of that? For me it had to be a total disillusionment with the religion of my youth. So I guess letting go of ideas like precarious grace requires seeing one or more non sequiturs or outright lies for what they are, but fear keeps people in denial. The psychological failsafes built into fundamentalism are pretty strong.

[Durandalski]

(01-20-2017, 03:46 PM)leo the lamb Wrote: how do people come out of that? For me it had to be a total disillusionment with the religion of my youth. So I guess letting go of ideas like precarious grace requires seeing one or more non sequiturs or outright lies for what they are, but fear keeps people in denial. The psychological failsafes built into fundamentalism are pretty strong.

I wonder this myself, especially in cases like my friend from the OP. He's sold himself out for fundamentalism, become one the strongest young voices for the strictest form of fundiesm. Naturally he gets a lot of positive attention because of this which further reinforces it. Maybe if he messed up and all those fawning fundies and approving preachers rejected him? 

I have other friends who are still fundies, but are modernizing somewhat. They are very different from the older generation fundies, far more loving and genuine. Some (le gasp) are even ok with pants on women. But they still pound the old KJV and many other fundy bugaboos like alcohol. I have hope for them, but I just don't know. I hope they get out before they get hurt, or worse become part of the problem and hurt others.

[myotch]

Why take to fundies about booze? The Fundy will not see your side on the issue. I've tried.

The best logic, the best reason, the best evidence, and the best argument delivered warmly and graciously cannot reverse the conviction delivered to the Fundy ear by a mannagawd.

[Miss TTU Runner-Up]

(01-18-2017, 11:37 PM)MyKneesAreShowing Wrote:

(01-16-2017, 10:37 AM)Natalie Wrote: What I find interesting is when they say they say they take the KJV literally word for word. Ok. 

"So, then Jesus DID turn water into wine..."

"Uh... Err.... No, that's not what that means!"

Exactly!! We take the bible literally, except when we don't.

OP- I think your arguments are sound. Hopefully even if your friend doesn't listen now, it will give him something to think about later.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

To quote Rachel Held Evans, "Everyone's a biblical literalist until you bring up gluttony."

[Durandalski]

My old friend never responded, but a couple weeks later he just posted this.

" Did you know..? in 1869 Thomas Welch a Methodist lay preacher invented a juice pasteurization process to keep juice from fermenting. He sold it as "Dr. Welchs unfermented Wine", also ancient writers Pliny, Plutarch, Horace (Ancient Greek and Roman writers) used the word wine and said that the best wine was "harmless and innocent" and "unadulterated". I think Aristotle even used the word wine to refer to grape juice, also in the Bible in Isaiah 16:10 and a few others places the word wine is used in reference to grape juice.
Jesus did not make alcoholic wine!"

So yeah, my arguments = no impact no idea. Also, he responded in the comments to a question with this:

"Nope. Just studying. It's really strange though. if you look up the word Oinos, most lexicons say that the word oinos means alcoholic wine, the lexicons are just wrong, and I think a lot of people have been mislead by them on the words wine and strong drink."

I face-palmed so hard. You simply can't argue with this level of denial.

[Josh]

He clearly has alternative facts to what the lexicons report...

[Woke Up]

Interesting that Gluttony was brought up in this thread. We know that Prov. 23:20 says, "Do not mix with winebibbers or with GLUTTONOUS eaters of meat."

Sadly, most Baptists groups ignore the gluttony warning. Most IFB Pastors and MOG enjoy eating. Growing up, our Pastor was quite over- weight his whole career. But to this day, I do not recall ONE sermon on the dangers of over-eating.

Heard a bunch of spitting and fuming about being drunk or even taking the first sip, though.