[pastor's wife]

I'm not where many of you are on certain issues, but many of the things mentioned I have changed my mind on.

On my list, I could put things like music and movies and clothes and outward standards but those are actually trivial compared to certain deeper things. I'd have to really think about those for a longer time than this quick reply, but let me respond to a couple comments above:

1. exfundy4Jesus wrote, "We must fix people and set them right." YES!!! Oh, what a relief to realize that I'm NOT responsible for other people. I just read a link a friend posted on facebook which included this line, "If you want your boyfriend to turn into a husband who loves you like Christ, make sure he is walking with Christ." WHAT?!!! THAT'S NOT YOUR JOB!!! That's between the guy and the Holy Spirit. You can choose not to date him based on his behavior/attitudes, but you can't MAKE SURE he is "walking with Christ." Good grief.

2. leo wrote, "It's OK to hate yourself." Oh, wow. I'm still working on that.

3. BigRed1, good list! I agree.

[Miss TTU Runner-Up]

1.If I miss God's perfect will for my life, I will be miserable and will not get a second chance at it.
2.If I am not in full-time Christian service, I am a second-class Christian.
3. The public schools are trying to indoctrinate children and get them yo reject God and hate their parents.
4. If I follow the rules, I will be happy.

[myotch]

Certainty.

[rsc2a]

(08-08-2016, 09:10 PM)myotch Wrote: Certainty.

Are you sure?

[myotch]

(08-09-2016, 08:18 AM)rsc2a Wrote:

(08-08-2016, 09:10 PM)myotch Wrote: Certainty.

Are you sure?

I hope

[pastor's wife]

I've just been thinking about this and was wondering where to post it, and this thread seemed appropriate.

I've changed my mind about the whole "denying myself" thing. I have to figure out how to apply that Scripture differently without throwing it out altogether because I do still want to be a follower of Christ and a Bible believer. But when I think the mess of my life that I've ended up in, part of me can't help but wonder if things would have been different if I'd chosen what I WANTED more than what I thought I was SUPPOSED to. If I WANTED something, it was suspect because my flesh was SINFUL and we were to deny our flesh.

Now I wish I'd spent more time learning what I wanted and following what I wanted. Trying to follow what God wanted (which was often what OTHER people wanted, like my parents or my husband or church members) has left me in a place I never thought I'd be and where I do not want to be.

[myotch]

I'm all about denying myself, in season, from certain things.

As a spiritual practice, it helps if you wan't to make the sacrifice, instead of duty, obligation, arbitrary rule.

A few years ago, I wnt vegan - because I wanted to. For 6 months, I had an eye-opening sacrificial experience that made me think about the food I was putting in my body. I benefitted in a few health areas.

I try to replicate that now only for the health benefits. It's a chore. It's joyless. I cheat, fail, and make it worse after cheating and failing.

The little thing that made it joyful.....I need that, it's evasive, it's undefinable.

But I think it has do do with wanting the experience, wanting the discipline, instead of just wanting the benefits, the payoff.

[pastor's wife]

Oops! I just realized this was in Non-believer Safespace. I'm not sure how I ended up on this forum! Sorry for intruding! I thought it was a different one. (Sometimes I think I'm too old for the internet - lol.)

[Tiarali]

Someone on fb recently riled me up by telling me (without knowing me from a bar of soap), that I'd 'just not allowed myself enough time to heal', and that 'it wasn't God who hurt me, it was christians'.  I posted this response, since it was a private group, and realised how frustrated that I am that I cannot share honestly with my family how I feel and who I am.  So while not entirely atheist/agnostic, I hope that this is ok to post here.

Quote:My story started in 2010 when I found out that my now ex was an abusive jerk. I'm nearly swearing here because your judgmental, dismissive, pithy quote is really, really offensive, but I'm trying to be the better person here. My pastor wanted to cover up his crimes, so I learned, the IFB was wrong. God wasn't, they were. Fine.

I met with other christians who'd escaped the IFB on stuff fundies like, and found them comforting. I started reading the message so I could read the bible fresh. I started visiting a range of very different churches so I could get a better view of what christianity was about. I spent some time in a women's shelter and started reading books about domestic violence so I could understand what happened to me, and what to look out for in future. I also read 'the subtle power of spiritual abuse' so that I could learn to avoid abusive churches in future. I visited a salvation army church and a charismatic church - I was serious about trying out different branches of christianity.

I moved town to be closer to family for support. I started attending an Anglican church more regularly, and considered it my spiritual home. I decided that I didn't necessarily agree with them but they were good people, which was what christianity should be about - it's not healthy to require people to agree on all things.

But - I read the bible. This is problematic, you see. At one point in the old testament, it says that if a woman is raped in town she is to be held responsible for it, because she didn't cry out. As a rape victim, I can tell you straight out that one common response for rape victims is to feel a form of temporary paralysis. You freeze. You cannot do anything. You cannot say anything. It is your body's way of protecting you - if you play dead, essentially, maybe you won't be killed.

So. Whoever wrote that passage of the bible was either a) evil, or b) knew nothing about the way that the human body works. So, did God write the bible? If he did, then he's either evil or not omniscient. Maybe God didn't write that part of the bible. Maybe the old testament is just a series of stories that people made up to help them understand the world around them, and they weren't actually inspired by God at all.

Then we have Jesus, and he's real, right? And he seems pretty decent. But christians don't really follow Christ, do they? They follow Paul. Paul writes LOTS about how to control and manipulate other people. They should be called Paulians, not Christians.

So for a while I tried to focus on Christ, as though maybe Jesus was the son of God, and knew the old testament was nonsense but - never bothered to tell anybody this? I don't know... but it doesn't really work, does it?

If you read anything about domestic violence, anything at all, then look at the gospel, you'll see that it's not good news. It's not. It's got all the hallmarks of an abusive relationship. It's the exact definition of an abusive relationship. Is that a god worth worshipping?

So I've been on a journey. First rejecting abusive christian extremists, then rejecting the abusive portions of the bible, and finally confronting the abusive nature of the gospel itself. It's taken me almost seven years, much learning and soul searching. I'm not at the point yet where I can reject spiritual matters completely, so I am researching another religion - but I know full well that this might be one more step on the path to atheism, and I'm ok with that.

If the god of the bible is true, then I would consider it my ethical responsibility to burn forever in hell rather than to worship an abusive monster.

Now, if you find comfort in christianity still, then I wish you well. But don't you dare continue to throw around those stupid, pithy sayings like "it's christians you had a problem with, not god". That's nonsense. That's arrogant. That's dismissive of my experience, my learning, my understanding. I didn't come to this position out of a knee jerk reaction, and you are not better than me because you still find comfort in abusive fairy tales - while I absolutely respect your right to do so, I honestly consider this to make you less of a person, not better.

[BigRed1]

Tiarali,

That was beautifully expressed, especially, "If you read anything about domestic violence, anything at all, then look at the gospel, you'll see that it's not good news. It's not. It's got all the hallmarks of an abusive relationship. It's the exact definition of an abusive relationship. Is that a god worth worshipping?"

You've done well for you and yours.  Thank you for sharing what you've so accurately put into words.  Nothing new there!

I've often told myself over the last four years that it was the "christians" so-called and not God that are the problem.  This is one of those platitudes that diminishes one's own experience and never addresses any solution.  It's like you're being told, "suck it up, buttercup!"

I am utterly confounded by your statement, "If the god of the bible is true, then I would consider it my ethical responsibility to burn forever in hell rather than to worship an abusive monster."  There is no way to argue against your conclusion here.  None.

It's people like you here on SFL who have helped me break out and start thinking.  The compound certainly isn't in the thinking business, unless it's their way of thinking.